1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,550
[Music]

2
00:00:16,820 --> 00:00:09,190
welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

3
00:00:16,830 --> 00:00:24,710
[Music]

4
00:00:28,830 --> 00:00:26,550
yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

5
00:00:33,510 --> 00:00:28,840
episode number

6
00:00:35,350 --> 00:00:33,520
712 for the 29th of may 2022 richard

7
00:00:37,750 --> 00:00:35,360
saunders coming to you from

8
00:00:41,110 --> 00:00:37,760
looking up the skeptic's own window

9
00:00:42,790 --> 00:00:41,120
sunny blue skies sydney australia coming

10
00:00:46,150 --> 00:00:42,800
up on this week's show i catch up with

11
00:00:47,510 --> 00:00:46,160
my old friend dr siobhan o'sullivan

12
00:00:49,430 --> 00:00:47,520
now those of you who have been listening

13
00:00:51,990 --> 00:00:49,440
to the show for a while might remember

14
00:00:53,430 --> 00:00:52,000
that dr siobhan maynard and i went on a

15
00:00:56,549 --> 00:00:53,440
ghost hunt

16
00:00:58,389 --> 00:00:56,559
not far from here in the suburb of glebe

17
00:01:00,069 --> 00:00:58,399
some time ago

18
00:01:01,670 --> 00:01:00,079
mostly because we wanted to go on a

19
00:01:03,189 --> 00:01:01,680
ghost hunt but

20
00:01:05,750 --> 00:01:03,199
well it was sort of spurred on by the

21
00:01:07,510 --> 00:01:05,760
fact that dr siobhan has terminal

22
00:01:09,830 --> 00:01:07,520
ovarian cancer

23
00:01:11,270 --> 00:01:09,840
and she has such a

24
00:01:13,190 --> 00:01:11,280
positive and

25
00:01:14,950 --> 00:01:13,200
wonderful outlook in life regardless

26
00:01:17,510 --> 00:01:14,960
that she wanted to check out places to

27
00:01:19,749 --> 00:01:17,520
haunt after she dies

28
00:01:21,990 --> 00:01:19,759
anyway i catch up with her because she's

29
00:01:25,270 --> 00:01:22,000
also been lately very interested and

30
00:01:27,749 --> 00:01:25,280
very prominent in the discussion of

31
00:01:29,510 --> 00:01:27,759
voluntary assisted dying

32
00:01:32,390 --> 00:01:29,520
and new laws have just been passed in

33
00:01:34,630 --> 00:01:32,400
this state dr siobhan was there at the

34
00:01:36,789 --> 00:01:34,640
parliament when these laws were passed

35
00:01:38,950 --> 00:01:36,799
so we'll find out all about that coming

36
00:01:41,990 --> 00:01:38,960
up at the top of the show and what a

37
00:01:43,109 --> 00:01:42,000
wonderful example dr siobhan sets

38
00:01:46,310 --> 00:01:43,119
strong

39
00:01:48,630 --> 00:01:46,320
positive outlook regardless of the

40
00:01:51,270 --> 00:01:48,640
the slings and arrows

41
00:01:53,590 --> 00:01:51,280
and talking about ghosts talking about

42
00:01:55,990 --> 00:01:53,600
ghosts after that we look at tick-tock

43
00:01:57,109 --> 00:01:56,000
ghost hunters hmm did you hear that dr

44
00:01:58,950 --> 00:01:57,119
siobhan

45
00:02:01,190 --> 00:01:58,960
maybe after you become a ghost you can

46
00:02:04,230 --> 00:02:01,200
turn up on tick-tock anyway we look at

47
00:02:05,990 --> 00:02:04,240
tick-tock live ghost hunters people

48
00:02:07,590 --> 00:02:06,000
wandering around abandoned buildings

49
00:02:08,869 --> 00:02:07,600
with all sorts of weird and wonderful

50
00:02:11,830 --> 00:02:08,879
gadgets

51
00:02:13,190 --> 00:02:11,840
trying to talk with ghosts

52
00:02:15,030 --> 00:02:13,200
and this sort of follows on from our

53
00:02:19,190 --> 00:02:15,040
tick tock series looking at tick-tock

54
00:02:20,869 --> 00:02:19,200
divination and tick-tock psychics

55
00:02:23,589 --> 00:02:20,879
and to round off the show

56
00:02:25,430 --> 00:02:23,599
we dive back into the trove archives

57
00:02:28,710 --> 00:02:25,440
this time we head for the united states

58
00:02:31,110 --> 00:02:28,720
and look up references to my old friend

59
00:02:33,190 --> 00:02:31,120
james the amazing randy

60
00:02:34,869 --> 00:02:33,200
who certainly looked for a ghost or two

61
00:02:36,790 --> 00:02:34,879
in his time

62
00:02:39,110 --> 00:02:36,800
before we start of course we're all

63
00:02:41,350 --> 00:02:39,120
upset and outraged and

64
00:02:44,229 --> 00:02:41,360
non-plussed about the events that took

65
00:02:46,949 --> 00:02:44,239
place in texas in the last week

66
00:02:49,110 --> 00:02:46,959
this seemingly never-ending cycle

67
00:02:50,470 --> 00:02:49,120
and what a terrible situation of course

68
00:02:53,350 --> 00:02:50,480
for the uh

69
00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:53,360
the parents of those poor kids

70
00:02:56,790 --> 00:02:54,560
but also

71
00:02:59,670 --> 00:02:56,800
for the teachers now i have

72
00:03:02,790 --> 00:02:59,680
quite a few friends who are teachers

73
00:03:04,790 --> 00:03:02,800
and i admire them very much i really do

74
00:03:05,830 --> 00:03:04,800
and i saw a teacher

75
00:03:09,030 --> 00:03:05,840
on

76
00:03:10,869 --> 00:03:09,040
a news service just a few days ago

77
00:03:13,430 --> 00:03:10,879
she didn't know what to say thinking

78
00:03:16,390 --> 00:03:13,440
that now she has to

79
00:03:19,270 --> 00:03:16,400
possibly carry a sidearm when she goes

80
00:03:20,390 --> 00:03:19,280
to school just to teach little kids

81
00:03:21,830 --> 00:03:20,400
it's um

82
00:03:24,309 --> 00:03:21,840
it's beyond belief

83
00:03:25,830 --> 00:03:24,319
so a big shout out to the teachers i

84
00:03:28,710 --> 00:03:25,840
know you're listening

85
00:03:29,830 --> 00:03:28,720
and you know that i admire you

86
00:03:31,509 --> 00:03:29,840
but now it's time for me to run

87
00:03:32,710 --> 00:03:31,519
downstairs and i might as well have a

88
00:03:39,350 --> 00:03:32,720
waffle

89
00:03:42,869 --> 00:03:39,360
as recommended me

90
00:03:44,869 --> 00:03:42,879
by adrian hill and the skeptical fairy

91
00:03:47,670 --> 00:03:44,879
now we have to convince susan gerbic to

92
00:04:03,090 --> 00:03:47,680
uh to try some while i do that i hope

93
00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:11,910
[Music]

94
00:04:16,870 --> 00:04:14,630
dr siobhan o'sullivan what a thrill it

95
00:04:18,550 --> 00:04:16,880
is to see you again you're not a ghost

96
00:04:21,110 --> 00:04:18,560
i'm not a guy

97
00:04:23,030 --> 00:04:21,120
yeah really it's really me because last

98
00:04:24,950 --> 00:04:23,040
time we met what a fun time we had you

99
00:04:27,430 --> 00:04:24,960
me and maynard

100
00:04:30,070 --> 00:04:27,440
wandering around the creepy creepy areas

101
00:04:32,230 --> 00:04:30,080
not too far from here looking for ghosts

102
00:04:33,110 --> 00:04:32,240
from here looking for guys we didn't see

103
00:04:35,510 --> 00:04:33,120
any

104
00:04:38,550 --> 00:04:35,520
we saw quite a bit of rubbish

105
00:04:39,670 --> 00:04:38,560
and uh signs of people are living rough

106
00:04:43,110 --> 00:04:39,680
which is

107
00:04:45,990 --> 00:04:43,120
in itself sad but it's not it's not

108
00:04:47,670 --> 00:04:46,000
scary in the same way people from the uh

109
00:04:49,510 --> 00:04:47,680
other world

110
00:04:51,030 --> 00:04:49,520
no no i think we've got more things to

111
00:04:53,350 --> 00:04:51,040
worry about in the real world than the

112
00:04:55,110 --> 00:04:53,360
other world yes uh but we have but but

113
00:04:57,510 --> 00:04:55,120
it was a terrific night because you and

114
00:05:00,390 --> 00:04:57,520
me and maynard just had a wonderful

115
00:05:01,270 --> 00:05:00,400
interesting fun time it was very fun we

116
00:05:03,029 --> 00:05:01,280
were

117
00:05:04,550 --> 00:05:03,039
it's it's on the skeptic's own folks and

118
00:05:05,990 --> 00:05:04,560
i'll link to that episode in this week's

119
00:05:07,830 --> 00:05:06,000
show notes you can go back and hear our

120
00:05:09,909 --> 00:05:07,840
ghost adventures and i put it on youtube

121
00:05:11,909 --> 00:05:09,919
too yes and you can follow us on the map

122
00:05:13,670 --> 00:05:11,919
on youtube which i thought was quite fun

123
00:05:15,909 --> 00:05:13,680
anyway that was great because you told

124
00:05:18,629 --> 00:05:15,919
me um you were looking for places to

125
00:05:20,310 --> 00:05:18,639
haunt of course

126
00:05:22,390 --> 00:05:20,320
now why i've i've caught up with you

127
00:05:24,550 --> 00:05:22,400
folks i've caught up with dr siobhan dr

128
00:05:26,710 --> 00:05:24,560
chiffon has ovarian cancer

129
00:05:27,749 --> 00:05:26,720
um and she's

130
00:05:29,749 --> 00:05:27,759
you're you're just back from the

131
00:05:31,749 --> 00:05:29,759
hospital aren't you yes i'm just back

132
00:05:33,510 --> 00:05:31,759
from seeing my oncologist

133
00:05:36,950 --> 00:05:33,520
and um

134
00:05:40,870 --> 00:05:36,960
i have now been through every chemo

135
00:05:44,469 --> 00:05:40,880
available for ovarian cancer wow um and

136
00:05:47,909 --> 00:05:44,479
i was hope the last chemo i was on uh

137
00:05:50,150 --> 00:05:47,919
was really really difficult to tolerate

138
00:05:52,950 --> 00:05:50,160
and i thought maybe this will do

139
00:05:54,390 --> 00:05:52,960
something but no the cancer the cancer

140
00:05:57,909 --> 00:05:54,400
just laughs

141
00:06:00,070 --> 00:05:57,919
and uh continues on its merry way so i'm

142
00:06:00,870 --> 00:06:00,080
gonna have probably a month off chemo

143
00:06:03,430 --> 00:06:00,880
now

144
00:06:06,309 --> 00:06:03,440
regroup and perhaps i'll go on a drug

145
00:06:08,309 --> 00:06:06,319
trial if i'm eligible otherwise i'm

146
00:06:09,749 --> 00:06:08,319
going to move to a

147
00:06:13,830 --> 00:06:09,759
weekly

148
00:06:15,990 --> 00:06:13,840
combination of chemo drugs that um would

149
00:06:17,110 --> 00:06:16,000
just try and slow it slow down the

150
00:06:18,950 --> 00:06:17,120
growth okay

151
00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:18,960
but i couldn't help but notice that your

152
00:06:23,510 --> 00:06:22,000
hair's all come back i've got so much

153
00:06:25,830 --> 00:06:23,520
more hair now

154
00:06:28,070 --> 00:06:25,840
so when i go on this new chemo in a

155
00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:28,080
month if that is indeed what happens i

156
00:06:30,950 --> 00:06:29,470
will lose my hair again

157
00:06:33,189 --> 00:06:30,960
[Music]

158
00:06:35,430 --> 00:06:33,199
and also unfortunately

159
00:06:38,710 --> 00:06:35,440
the new chemo i'm going to be on isn't

160
00:06:41,990 --> 00:06:38,720
on the pbs for ovarian cancer

161
00:06:43,670 --> 00:06:42,000
so it's going to be really expensive but

162
00:06:47,189 --> 00:06:43,680
anyway um

163
00:06:49,990 --> 00:06:47,199
my family has decided i'm

164
00:06:54,550 --> 00:06:52,550
that's my that's mighty generous

165
00:06:59,510 --> 00:06:54,560
i'm glad i'm glad that puts pressure on

166
00:07:02,870 --> 00:07:01,029
i'm pleased to hear that

167
00:07:05,110 --> 00:07:02,880
so folks you can catch up with siobhan

168
00:07:07,430 --> 00:07:05,120
story again on the previous time that

169
00:07:08,870 --> 00:07:07,440
that i spoke to her as we were doing i

170
00:07:10,230 --> 00:07:08,880
mean and maynard as we were doing the

171
00:07:12,629 --> 00:07:10,240
ghost interview and you can find out the

172
00:07:13,830 --> 00:07:12,639
backstory about her ovarian cancer and

173
00:07:15,189 --> 00:07:13,840
those issues

174
00:07:16,469 --> 00:07:15,199
but i've caught up with you today

175
00:07:18,950 --> 00:07:16,479
because

176
00:07:20,550 --> 00:07:18,960
last week was it just last week here in

177
00:07:22,150 --> 00:07:20,560
new south wales very important

178
00:07:24,550 --> 00:07:22,160
legislation went through which means

179
00:07:25,909 --> 00:07:24,560
that this state is now caught up i think

180
00:07:27,830 --> 00:07:25,919
with the rest of the country am i

181
00:07:30,390 --> 00:07:27,840
correct and this is to do with a sister

182
00:07:34,070 --> 00:07:30,400
dying yes so

183
00:07:36,629 --> 00:07:34,080
new south wales has now passed a

184
00:07:37,990 --> 00:07:36,639
voluntary assisted dying

185
00:07:41,430 --> 00:07:38,000
law

186
00:07:45,510 --> 00:07:41,440
it will take probably around 18 months

187
00:07:47,990 --> 00:07:45,520
to establish um the voluntary assisted

188
00:07:49,749 --> 00:07:48,000
dying facilities so it's not something

189
00:07:50,869 --> 00:07:49,759
that people will be able to access right

190
00:07:53,749 --> 00:07:50,879
away

191
00:07:56,629 --> 00:07:53,759
but it is now law and so the wheels are

192
00:07:59,430 --> 00:07:56,639
in motion i assume that however these

193
00:08:00,309 --> 00:07:59,440
things work a directive will now go out

194
00:08:07,430 --> 00:08:00,319
to

195
00:08:08,950 --> 00:08:07,440
that they can start establishing their

196
00:08:09,830 --> 00:08:08,960
their centers

197
00:08:13,029 --> 00:08:09,840
um

198
00:08:15,270 --> 00:08:13,039
but unfortunately the two territories

199
00:08:18,629 --> 00:08:15,280
are being left behind the northern

200
00:08:20,230 --> 00:08:18,639
territory did enact a voluntary sister

201
00:08:23,830 --> 00:08:20,240
dying law

202
00:08:26,309 --> 00:08:23,840
many years ago it was very um vanguard i

203
00:08:29,270 --> 00:08:26,319
remember that yes many years ago this

204
00:08:30,950 --> 00:08:29,280
wasn't during the howard era

205
00:08:32,550 --> 00:08:30,960
and it was so it was the first in

206
00:08:35,589 --> 00:08:32,560
australia

207
00:08:39,190 --> 00:08:35,599
um but then the federal government

208
00:08:41,430 --> 00:08:39,200
acted to overrule that law which of

209
00:08:42,790 --> 00:08:41,440
course the northern territory and the

210
00:08:45,430 --> 00:08:42,800
ict

211
00:08:47,990 --> 00:08:45,440
both being territories are susceptible

212
00:08:50,230 --> 00:08:48,000
to the federal government overruling

213
00:08:52,150 --> 00:08:50,240
their own local laws

214
00:08:55,110 --> 00:08:52,160
so um

215
00:08:56,389 --> 00:08:55,120
a bit prior to the election that we've

216
00:08:58,389 --> 00:08:56,399
just had

217
00:09:01,430 --> 00:08:58,399
uh scott morrison our former prime

218
00:09:03,750 --> 00:09:01,440
minister said that he would not consider

219
00:09:06,790 --> 00:09:03,760
uh any changes to the situation in the

220
00:09:09,670 --> 00:09:06,800
two territories now of course uh we have

221
00:09:12,630 --> 00:09:09,680
a new prime minister in anthony albanese

222
00:09:14,870 --> 00:09:12,640
and the labour party and i

223
00:09:16,870 --> 00:09:14,880
think that it is possible that there

224
00:09:20,070 --> 00:09:16,880
might be a little bit of i i wouldn't be

225
00:09:21,829 --> 00:09:20,080
surprised there seems to be um

226
00:09:22,790 --> 00:09:21,839
a mood of change in the air doesn't

227
00:09:25,990 --> 00:09:22,800
there

228
00:09:27,590 --> 00:09:26,000
look i really really do hope so and it

229
00:09:30,470 --> 00:09:27,600
is my view that

230
00:09:32,550 --> 00:09:30,480
it is going to be very very difficult to

231
00:09:34,470 --> 00:09:32,560
shut the territories out particularly

232
00:09:36,630 --> 00:09:34,480
the act which is

233
00:09:38,949 --> 00:09:36,640
you know effectively you cross the road

234
00:09:41,350 --> 00:09:38,959
and you're in new south wales so to have

235
00:09:43,829 --> 00:09:41,360
people on different sides of the road

236
00:09:46,070 --> 00:09:43,839
having access to different types of

237
00:09:49,509 --> 00:09:46,080
assistance at the end of their lives to

238
00:09:51,750 --> 00:09:49,519
me seems like an unsustainable situation

239
00:09:55,110 --> 00:09:51,760
but that's not to take away from the

240
00:09:56,550 --> 00:09:55,120
very very hard work and

241
00:09:59,190 --> 00:09:56,560
dedicated

242
00:10:01,670 --> 00:09:59,200
uh work of the people who lobby to get

243
00:10:03,350 --> 00:10:01,680
these laws introduced and

244
00:10:05,030 --> 00:10:03,360
you know i'd like to think that perhaps

245
00:10:08,470 --> 00:10:05,040
the territories will have voluntary

246
00:10:11,750 --> 00:10:08,480
assisted dying in a few years from now

247
00:10:13,590 --> 00:10:11,760
but i know that for that to happen there

248
00:10:17,269 --> 00:10:13,600
will be a large number of people who

249
00:10:19,990 --> 00:10:17,279
would dedicate themselves day in day out

250
00:10:22,630 --> 00:10:20,000
and their resources to make it happen so

251
00:10:25,590 --> 00:10:22,640
i need to um acknowledge the really

252
00:10:27,350 --> 00:10:25,600
dedicated advocates and part of the

253
00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:27,360
reason i do do that is i do feel a

254
00:10:32,150 --> 00:10:30,240
little bit self-conscious in them to the

255
00:10:34,150 --> 00:10:32,160
extent that you know there were some

256
00:10:36,389 --> 00:10:34,160
people there on the day that the law

257
00:10:39,190 --> 00:10:36,399
passed in new south wales who had been

258
00:10:40,870 --> 00:10:39,200
campaigning for 50 years so for it you

259
00:10:42,310 --> 00:10:40,880
were there weren't you because i was i

260
00:10:45,509 --> 00:10:42,320
know you were there because you were on

261
00:10:47,110 --> 00:10:45,519
at least tv two tv news bulletins yeah

262
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:47,120
and you're on the front page of the

263
00:10:52,790 --> 00:10:49,760
sydney morning herald i was yes so there

264
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:52,800
was a lot of media coverage it really

265
00:10:57,990 --> 00:10:55,040
was very very

266
00:10:59,990 --> 00:10:58,000
much covered across all places and when

267
00:11:01,590 --> 00:11:00,000
we say you were there you were at

268
00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:01,600
parliament new south wales parliament in

269
00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:04,000
sydney yeah so

270
00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:06,320
there was uh there were a number of

271
00:11:11,829 --> 00:11:09,440
people who were very actively involved

272
00:11:13,269 --> 00:11:11,839
in media conferences and and talking

273
00:11:15,350 --> 00:11:13,279
about the issue

274
00:11:16,389 --> 00:11:15,360
in the week leading up and also on the

275
00:11:17,509 --> 00:11:16,399
day

276
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:17,519
um

277
00:11:22,870 --> 00:11:20,560
there was a couple of people there

278
00:11:26,389 --> 00:11:22,880
with cancer so people in similar

279
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:26,399
situations to me who are terminally ill

280
00:11:30,389 --> 00:11:29,120
there were people there who um were

281
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:30,399
honoring

282
00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:32,560
members of their family who had died

283
00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:35,120
waiting and wanting voluntary assisted

284
00:11:38,550 --> 00:11:36,320
dying

285
00:11:42,150 --> 00:11:38,560
um and

286
00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:42,160
you know they're also um people for whom

287
00:11:46,389 --> 00:11:44,320
you know this law will be particularly

288
00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:46,399
applicable to people with a range of

289
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:48,160
cancers you know the really kind of

290
00:11:53,110 --> 00:11:50,399
nasty terminal cancers

291
00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:53,120
but they're also people who of course

292
00:11:59,190 --> 00:11:56,320
can get motor neurone diseases that are

293
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:59,200
extremely um you know difficult to live

294
00:12:02,629 --> 00:12:00,240
with and

295
00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:02,639
are terminal in some cases

296
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:04,480
and they are the other big group that

297
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:07,360
will benefit from this legislation

298
00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:10,480
and um unfortunately um

299
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:12,880
someone who who has worked a long time

300
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:15,040
with um the voluntary sister dying

301
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:17,760
people in particular i've been trying to

302
00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:20,079
work with the guy gentle which is andrew

303
00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:23,200
denton's charity andrew denton being a

304
00:12:27,509 --> 00:12:25,600
very well respected broadcaster here in

305
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:27,519
australia yes for many years yes

306
00:12:31,990 --> 00:12:30,079
absolutely well-known broadcaster has

307
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:32,000
taken a great interest in voluntary

308
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:33,600
assisted dying

309
00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:36,480
set up a charity called go gentle about

310
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:41,120
five years ago and uh so some of the um

311
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:43,279
people with motor neurone disease who

312
00:12:48,310 --> 00:12:46,240
have worked a long time with with andrew

313
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:48,320
weren't able to come unfortunately to

314
00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:49,680
parliament house so we had a few

315
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:52,240
representatives from the um soon to be

316
00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:54,959
dead community of which i'm a pro now

317
00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:57,200
prominent member

318
00:13:02,069 --> 00:12:59,680
um soon to be ghosts right soon to be

319
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:02,079
guys i would love to haunt people i'm

320
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:04,320
just not quite sure when i think of all

321
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:07,040
the people who die each day and then the

322
00:13:12,069 --> 00:13:09,360
number of ghost sightings

323
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:12,079
there's a bit of an inefficiency

324
00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:13,920
maybe but you would be a friendly ghost

325
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,880
wouldn't you

326
00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:16,560
oh i just want to have a look at what

327
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:20,160
everyone's up to when i can't see

328
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:21,839
normally i wouldn't be able to say that

329
00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:24,480
maybe maybe maybe you'll get to find out

330
00:13:28,629 --> 00:13:26,560
i don't know but tell me why why do you

331
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:28,639
think that uh

332
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,040
new south wales this state was so far

333
00:13:35,509 --> 00:13:33,120
behind i mean many places in the world

334
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:35,519
have acted on this and here in australia

335
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:37,120
other states have

336
00:13:41,990 --> 00:13:39,440
acted upon this but this state seems to

337
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:42,000
have really dragged its heels one of the

338
00:13:46,710 --> 00:13:44,000
interesting articles i read you know in

339
00:13:49,269 --> 00:13:46,720
the last few days since the

340
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:49,279
law was passed in new south wales

341
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:52,800
was uh talking about how much more

342
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:56,320
um religious uh how

343
00:14:00,710 --> 00:13:57,920
how the proportion of people who

344
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:00,720
identify as religious is greater in new

345
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:03,600
south wales than in victoria really

346
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:05,440
yeah it was a really interesting piece

347
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,760
actually and i mean so we're talking

348
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:09,279
about something like

349
00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:12,880
34 in victoria and um

350
00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:15,519
48 in news that kind of thing so not a

351
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:17,839
absolutely dramatic it wasn't chalk and

352
00:14:21,910 --> 00:14:20,000
cheese but there certainly was a

353
00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:21,920
significantly bigger proportion of

354
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:22,800
people

355
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:25,440
in new south wales who who identify as

356
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:27,839
religious but also new south wales

357
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:30,480
politics quite frankly

358
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:33,120
it's been corrupt for decades i mean it

359
00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:35,120
really is um

360
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:37,360
very focused on who gets the biggest

361
00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:40,240
chunk of land near the harbour yes and

362
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,000
or the or the new airport or something

363
00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:44,720
like that or i mean

364
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:49,600
honestly it is a state that is driven by

365
00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:55,199
greed and land and wealth and views and

366
00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:58,480
um we have not had outstanding

367
00:15:02,470 --> 00:15:00,800
leadership at a state level in my

368
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:02,480
opinion

369
00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:05,279
for some decades but of course this

370
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:07,360
piece of legislation was put forward by

371
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:10,720
an independent um and he has done a

372
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:14,399
really good job at um

373
00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:16,480
bringing forward a number of really

374
00:15:21,509 --> 00:15:18,560
complicated and important pieces of

375
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,519
legislation and importantly for us

376
00:15:26,949 --> 00:15:23,279
thinking about the future of australian

377
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:26,959
politics was able to broker

378
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:27,839
um

379
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:31,120
you know agreements across the aisle get

380
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:33,440
bring a whole lot of people from diverse

381
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:36,000
political parties into the room

382
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:38,720
and so um on the day

383
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:41,519
that the laws passed in new south wales

384
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:43,040
at the press conference and we had

385
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:44,320
people there of course from the liberal

386
00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:45,839
party and labour party we had

387
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:48,800
independence animal justice party the

388
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:52,000
greens you know the hunters and fishes

389
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:54,160
were there the nationals so he did a

390
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:55,839
really good job at bringing everyone

391
00:15:58,629 --> 00:15:57,120
together

392
00:16:01,910 --> 00:15:58,639
and um

393
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:01,920
i think it suggests that maybe

394
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:04,320
you know this kind of turn away from the

395
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:05,920
major parties perhaps it could be

396
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:07,680
beneficial in some way it could be i

397
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:10,240
mean we will see it certainly in in the

398
00:16:14,710 --> 00:16:12,560
the federal election just over

399
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:14,720
um it was quite stark

400
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:16,639
the number of independents and greens

401
00:16:19,670 --> 00:16:17,680
and

402
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:19,680
i'm glad to say but none of the parties

403
00:16:24,069 --> 00:16:22,079
that we would consider to be the lunatic

404
00:16:26,069 --> 00:16:24,079
fringe like pauline hansard or the

405
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:26,079
import that you know those sort of

406
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:27,920
parties they didn't do very well they

407
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:30,399
don't do very well hopefully most people

408
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:34,320
can see through their misinformation

409
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:36,560
yeah i mean it one of things that i

410
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:38,639
think we can conclude is that you can't

411
00:16:44,550 --> 00:16:41,199
just buy an election in australia it's

412
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:44,560
not that easy or else of course the uap

413
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:46,480
united australian party would have done

414
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:48,720
much better than it did yeah yeah and

415
00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:50,560
this is the sort of the party that's

416
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:52,160
that can't wait for donald trump to come

417
00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:54,959
back in the united states

418
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:56,320
uh we have a lot of fun here in

419
00:17:01,350 --> 00:16:58,079
australia folks with our little parties

420
00:17:03,269 --> 00:17:01,360
and their funny ideas anyway dr siobhan

421
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:03,279
it's it's good news

422
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:05,520
i think i think it shows that you know

423
00:17:10,949 --> 00:17:07,360
our society is moving forward this is a

424
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:10,959
very important issue yes and um

425
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:11,919
it

426
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:13,760
must have been remarkable for you to be

427
00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:15,280
there because it affects you so

428
00:17:20,470 --> 00:17:17,600
personally there on the day

429
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:20,480
and let's hope that uh heaven can wait

430
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:22,799
and you don't have to haunt anybody

431
00:17:28,549 --> 00:17:26,319
absolutely i actually was very emotional

432
00:17:29,909 --> 00:17:28,559
at the time that

433
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:29,919
um we were

434
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:32,400
we're doing the final press conference

435
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:33,520
um

436
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:36,320
and i feel

437
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:39,360
a bit embarrassed admitting but

438
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:42,559
i was you know thinking about myself but

439
00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:44,880
perhaps that is what humans do

440
00:17:53,350 --> 00:17:50,310
um and part of the reason why i did

441
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:53,360
become a bit emotional was that

442
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:56,640
it's gonna be a really really big uh

443
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:58,720
effort for me to still be alive in 18

444
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:00,400
months which is how long it will take

445
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:03,120
for it to be established so it's perhaps

446
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:05,200
unlikely i will ever get to use the laws

447
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:07,440
myself but that said

448
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:10,559
i also do have a great deal of respect

449
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:12,640
for palliative care

450
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:15,679
doctors and nurses and institutions and

451
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:17,440
it is my hope that

452
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:20,720
i will be able to i get to the other

453
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:22,880
side to the haunting side

454
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:25,679
just with palliative care because i'm

455
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:27,360
hoping to avoid the worse of the

456
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:29,760
suffering and yeah i think that has to

457
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:31,280
do with where the

458
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:33,520
tumors are growing and what organs they

459
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:35,440
take down first and that kind of thing

460
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:36,240
so

461
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:38,960
i do hope to even in the absence of

462
00:18:44,549 --> 00:18:41,280
established voluntary assisted dying

463
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:44,559
laws in new south wales i do hope to

464
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:47,760
yeah go gentle if i can

465
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:48,960
anyway

466
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:51,200
go gentle but not without making a

467
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:53,440
statement along the way yes well i think

468
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:55,520
it's i think we can conclude that i'm

469
00:19:02,310 --> 00:18:58,960
going to continue to be a bit of a pain

470
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:02,320
in people a thorn in people's side until

471
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:05,520
the end until the bitter end

472
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:07,280
and where should people go to find out

473
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:09,520
more well first of all if you put it

474
00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:12,000
into google news you will get a lot of

475
00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:15,039
the media reports the go gentle uh

476
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:16,720
website is very

477
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:19,200
comprehensive go gentle website okay

478
00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:21,039
people can google that and dying with

479
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:23,360
dignity they've also been campaigning on

480
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:25,679
this issue for a very long time so if

481
00:19:30,390 --> 00:19:28,240
you plug it into google you will see

482
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:30,400
plenty of resources

483
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:33,600
well dr siobhan um well look

484
00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:36,240
i i'm still keen for another ghost hunt

485
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:38,000
whether you're with us in person or in

486
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:40,080
spirit i don't care maybe we can

487
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:42,160
organize that one day

488
00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:44,559
if you and maine added the first people

489
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:47,120
to hear me uh from the other side that

490
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:49,360
would be fabulous

491
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:51,440
i would look forward to it dr siobhan

492
00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:53,440
thank you very much my pleasure thank

493
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:10,710
[Music]

494
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:13,270
hi this is brian dunning as part of

495
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:15,440
national science week in australia

496
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:17,760
canberra skeptics will be hosting a free

497
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:20,159
screening of my latest documentary

498
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:23,039
science friction this will be on sunday

499
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:26,080
the 14th of august at 1pm king

500
00:20:32,830 --> 00:20:30,510
o'malley's pub 131 city walk in

501
00:20:35,430 --> 00:20:32,840
[Music]

502
00:20:37,510 --> 00:20:35,440
canberra so what is it all about well

503
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:37,520
you know those tv documentaries you see

504
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:39,840
and the science experts they feature did

505
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:42,400
you know that producers often edit them

506
00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:45,360
out of context and twist their words to

507
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:47,840
make it seem like they promoted some pop

508
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:51,360
sensationalism instead of the real facts

509
00:20:55,990 --> 00:20:54,480
science friction exposes this practice

510
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:56,000
and gives the scientists a chance to

511
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:57,440
clear the record

512
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:00,240
you will be shocked to see how the media

513
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:02,730
can twist their words and intent

514
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:06,720
[Music]

515
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:10,240
that's sunday the 14th of august at 1pm

516
00:21:15,029 --> 00:21:13,039
at king o'malley's hub for further

517
00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:15,039
information about this free event please

518
00:21:23,669 --> 00:21:21,110
thank you and i hope you all raise a

519
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:23,679
glass to help promote science and

520
00:21:31,060 --> 00:21:26,400
truth-telling in the media i know i

521
00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:31,070
certainly will and please enjoy the film

522
00:21:49,669 --> 00:21:48,000
[Music]

523
00:21:51,990 --> 00:21:49,679
a couple of weeks ago on the skeptic

524
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:52,000
zone we had a segment called tick-tock

525
00:21:56,830 --> 00:21:54,480
paranormal which was following on from a

526
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:56,840
segment i did last year about tick-tock

527
00:22:02,630 --> 00:21:59,120
tarot now

528
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:02,640
briefly these are live videos broadcast

529
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,480
through the tick tock

530
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:06,720
system the tick tock app

531
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:08,159
of people

532
00:22:12,549 --> 00:22:10,240
doing whatever in fact there are many

533
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:12,559
live videos on tiktok 24 hours a day of

534
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:14,559
people just doing things

535
00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:16,799
talking to the camera going about their

536
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:18,480
daily work

537
00:22:22,230 --> 00:22:20,720
and of course engaging in paranormal

538
00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:22,240
activities

539
00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:24,000
now we've covered tarot and we've

540
00:22:28,549 --> 00:22:27,039
covered people using other methods of

541
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:28,559
divination

542
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:30,480
divining rods pendulums that sort of

543
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,960
thing today we're going to

544
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:34,159
investigate

545
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:36,000
tick-tock ghost hunters because

546
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:37,200
somewhere

547
00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:38,960
around the world

548
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:40,559
at any one time

549
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:42,159
it's always night

550
00:22:45,909 --> 00:22:43,760
and there are always people ready to

551
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:45,919
venture out into the darkness but not in

552
00:22:52,390 --> 00:22:48,240
every situation as we'll get to

553
00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:52,400
in order to investigate ghostly things

554
00:22:56,740 --> 00:22:54,080
what i have discovered is that many of

555
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:56,750
these people enlist the aid of

556
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:57,840
[Music]

557
00:23:01,990 --> 00:22:59,760
spirit boxes

558
00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:02,000
in one form or another now just to

559
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:04,880
refresh your memory these are radio

560
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:07,760
receivers that quickly scan frequencies

561
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:09,120
latch on to

562
00:23:14,789 --> 00:23:13,039
any given signal and briefly maybe for

563
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:14,799
half a second quarter of a second a full

564
00:23:18,549 --> 00:23:16,720
second broadcast

565
00:23:19,990 --> 00:23:18,559
that frequency and then move on to the

566
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:20,000
next frequency

567
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:21,440
so sometimes

568
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:22,799
you get

569
00:23:25,430 --> 00:23:23,840
words

570
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:25,440
especially if you're

571
00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:27,520
scanning around on the am dial you get a

572
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:29,600
lot of talk radio a lot of words coming

573
00:23:33,029 --> 00:23:32,159
through and that's what you hear

574
00:23:34,870 --> 00:23:33,039
now

575
00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:34,880
some of these people use

576
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:37,120
real radio scanners but many of these

577
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:40,720
people are now using apps

578
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:44,000
ghost hunting apps apps that either scan

579
00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:46,000
frequency somewhere and broadcast those

580
00:23:51,990 --> 00:23:48,240
scanned frequencies

581
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:52,000
bursts as you'll hear or apps that

582
00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:54,000
for some reason

583
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:55,919
add a lot of echo

584
00:24:00,870 --> 00:23:58,559
echoey sound maybe for

585
00:24:02,149 --> 00:24:00,880
dramatic effect i don't know

586
00:24:03,669 --> 00:24:02,159
and i'm sure there are many ghost

587
00:24:05,830 --> 00:24:03,679
hunting apps available for those who

588
00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:05,840
wish to use them nevertheless one of the

589
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:07,840
things that struck me about these

590
00:24:11,909 --> 00:24:10,240
scanners no matter if they're real radio

591
00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:11,919
scanners or if they're an app on a

592
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:14,240
tablet or a phone or something like that

593
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:16,080
is that they seem to rely heavily on

594
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:19,039
what we know as audio paradolia

595
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:20,559
and this is where

596
00:24:25,269 --> 00:24:22,559
you hear something but your brain

597
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:25,279
interprets it as something else

598
00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:27,600
here is a classic example i'm going to

599
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:30,320
play this word to you three times it's

600
00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:33,120
an artificial voice making this word or

601
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:34,559
words

602
00:24:37,510 --> 00:24:36,559
you decide

603
00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:37,520
and

604
00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:40,080
maybe you know this one it's a classic

605
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:41,600
what do you hear

606
00:24:58,789 --> 00:24:57,190
now i wonder what

607
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:58,799
you heard

608
00:25:01,990 --> 00:25:00,400
did you hear

609
00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:02,000
the term

610
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:04,880
brainstorm

611
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:10,640
play this again and think of the term

612
00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:23,990
i think that time you could clearly hear

613
00:25:28,549 --> 00:25:25,520
the words uh

614
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:28,559
brainstorm or the term brainstorm

615
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:30,240
but now let me play

616
00:25:34,549 --> 00:25:32,480
exactly the same file again the same

617
00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:34,559
word the same recording and of course

618
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:36,720
you're welcome to rewind this part of

619
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:37,840
the show if you

620
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:39,679
are skeptical

621
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:41,919
this time i want you to think of the

622
00:25:44,149 --> 00:25:43,039
words

623
00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:44,159
green

624
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:45,200
needle

625
00:26:00,789 --> 00:25:58,950
that's remarkable isn't it every time i

626
00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:00,799
do this for myself

627
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:02,080
i can make my

628
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:04,080
brain interpret

629
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:06,480
brainstorm or green needle

630
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:07,520
it's

631
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:10,400
bizarre but that's audio paradolia

632
00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:12,240
your mind

633
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:14,240
is

634
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:15,520
affecting

635
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:16,880
what you hear

636
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:18,960
just like visual paradolia where you can

637
00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:20,559
see faces

638
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:23,039
in the clouds or whatever your brain

639
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:26,320
will manipulate the information coming

640
00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:28,720
in through your senses bear that in mind

641
00:26:33,269 --> 00:26:32,080
as we hear some of these spirit boxes in

642
00:26:36,149 --> 00:26:33,279
action

643
00:26:37,830 --> 00:26:36,159
now our first tick tucker goes by the

644
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:37,840
handle of

645
00:26:42,470 --> 00:26:40,400
burn zebra i think it's pronounced

646
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:42,480
and this fellow seems to be wandering

647
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:44,080
around a

648
00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:46,799
graveyard in fact he is absolutely

649
00:26:51,029 --> 00:26:49,120
wandering around the graveyard

650
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:51,039
it's the dead of night

651
00:26:54,630 --> 00:26:52,960
and he has a

652
00:26:56,070 --> 00:26:54,640
flashlight

653
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:56,080
let's have a listen

654
00:26:59,269 --> 00:26:58,240
like i said yes i haven't lied from the

655
00:27:03,590 --> 00:26:59,279
start

656
00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:03,600
i am a a scepti i'm a skeptic

657
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:06,640
and the first one that i did made me

658
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:08,159
start feeling that i shouldn't be oh

659
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:09,360
look at that

660
00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:15,110
feet

661
00:27:21,669 --> 00:27:16,720
um

662
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:21,679
i was a skeptic but each one i do i feel

663
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:24,480
different feelings and different vibes

664
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:26,159
you know what i mean i feel eeriness as

665
00:27:30,230 --> 00:27:27,840
well in that like

666
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:30,240
it's very astonishing for me it's really

667
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:31,600
insane

668
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:32,960
yes i'm

669
00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:34,240
going to show you the side because i

670
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:36,640
don't want to really show the

671
00:27:45,669 --> 00:27:40,880
but there's one two three four

672
00:27:50,389 --> 00:27:47,990
with with respect is it okay if i leave

673
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:50,399
you now i'll bring you a gift next time

674
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:51,760
i'm here

675
00:27:56,630 --> 00:27:53,840
but is it okay if i leave you now and

676
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:56,640
let you lay here to rest in peace barry

677
00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:58,240
cousin

678
00:28:02,630 --> 00:28:01,200
so there we go and he is using

679
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:02,640
one of these uh

680
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:04,159
devices

681
00:28:08,149 --> 00:28:06,000
an ipad i guess it is maybe it's an

682
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:08,159
android device that doesn't matter

683
00:28:12,549 --> 00:28:11,120
but it's clearly using an app

684
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:12,559
and in this case

685
00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:14,960
the app is as far as i can tell by

686
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:18,080
looking at the the video the live video

687
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:20,320
paratech

688
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:23,120
world output jammed session list i'm

689
00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:24,640
just reading off the screen

690
00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:27,039
sensor live data and there's lots of

691
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:28,080
little

692
00:28:33,750 --> 00:28:30,880
sensory uh things to read there

693
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:33,760
it looks almost scientific

694
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:36,240
control panel but again it's an app i

695
00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:38,720
guess paratech

696
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:40,880
but let's check out the next live tick

697
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:43,520
tock from ghost hunting and this one

698
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:45,840
involves a ouija board we can't see the

699
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:47,840
people involved their faces because the

700
00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:49,600
camera is rather close to the ouija

701
00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:51,520
board there are three people operating

702
00:28:53,669 --> 00:28:52,799
the board

703
00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:53,679
uh

704
00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:54,960
it's hard to say where they are

705
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:56,720
presumably what they consider to be a

706
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:58,399
haunted location

707
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:00,480
but let's see how they go

708
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:02,960
with their ouija board

709
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:05,210
why am i cursed

710
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:15,110
danny cursed me

711
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:17,120
oh damn

712
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:19,840
i wonder why i killed you

713
00:29:26,789 --> 00:29:21,760
it was probably because you were jealous

714
00:29:28,549 --> 00:29:26,799
and you killed me why she cursed me

715
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:28,559
doesn't get too much more interesting

716
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:30,080
than that though

717
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:32,880
it is very interesting watching them use

718
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:34,480
the ouija board because there are three

719
00:29:37,750 --> 00:29:35,919
people using it

720
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:37,760
two people with their fingers on the

721
00:29:41,190 --> 00:29:40,320
lower part of the plant jet which is the

722
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:41,200
uh

723
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:43,840
triangular piece that you move around a

724
00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:45,279
ouija board

725
00:29:48,870 --> 00:29:46,960
but clearly

726
00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:48,880
clearly the person with the finger at

727
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:51,840
the top of the planchet is guiding where

728
00:29:57,029 --> 00:29:54,480
it goes it's quite obvious to see

729
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:57,039
and that was from a group called ghost

730
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:58,880
dusters

731
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:00,960
and next we come to an account called

732
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:03,360
mad underscore paranormal underscore

733
00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:04,799
official

734
00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:09,279
husband and wife

735
00:30:16,070 --> 00:30:13,360
darren and alex paranormal lives

736
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:16,080
live seance giveaways on facebook oh

737
00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:17,200
okay

738
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:19,600
now they have one of these apps which

739
00:30:23,669 --> 00:30:21,520
on an ipad presumably

740
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:23,679
if you point it at your subject

741
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:25,520
a real live person

742
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:28,320
it uh draws a stick figure over that

743
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:30,480
subject so they turn into a stick figure

744
00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:31,520
why

745
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:37,760
where are they it looks like possibly

746
00:30:41,669 --> 00:30:40,399
again an abandoned warehouse or location

747
00:30:43,430 --> 00:30:41,679
or who knows what

748
00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:43,440
with a couple of lights right in the

749
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:46,320
background they also have what seems to

750
00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:48,240
be some sort of meter

751
00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:50,960
visible on camera let's have a listen

752
00:31:02,800 --> 00:30:52,720
we can't communicate with somebody we

753
00:31:09,669 --> 00:31:02,990
[Applause]

754
00:31:09,679 --> 00:31:23,500
step back

755
00:31:23,510 --> 00:31:34,389
[Music]

756
00:31:34,399 --> 00:31:37,520
we need your name

757
00:31:37,530 --> 00:31:42,070
[Applause]

758
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,870
that's going off

759
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:47,669
so maybe by now

760
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,000
you're curious as i'm curious how many

761
00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:52,080
of these people are doing this for a

762
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:53,519
lock or a bit of

763
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:55,840
tick-tock entertainment or just a silly

764
00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:57,440
fun night out

765
00:32:01,269 --> 00:31:59,120
and how many of these people really

766
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:01,279
think that disembodied spirits are using

767
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:03,200
modern electronic equipment to somehow

768
00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:04,880
channel their um

769
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:06,880
their views and opinions

770
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:08,559
to the people wandering around

771
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:12,399
graveyards and abandoned buildings

772
00:32:16,630 --> 00:32:14,880
that's a very good question

773
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:16,640
in my experience i would have to say

774
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:18,799
that a good percentage of these people

775
00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:22,080
really honestly think that these devices

776
00:32:25,830 --> 00:32:24,559
are being used by

777
00:32:29,269 --> 00:32:25,840
dead people

778
00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:29,279
to send messages to the living

779
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:30,880
but i certainly hope some are doing it

780
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:32,480
for a laugh

781
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:34,799
and next we have an account called sos

782
00:32:40,789 --> 00:32:37,360
paranormal paranormal experiences

783
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:40,799
captured during our live stream with you

784
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:43,120
and they are

785
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:45,440
presumably in an abandoned building it's

786
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:47,120
very hard to say because we can't see

787
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:48,559
much

788
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:51,279
they have a stuffed toy

789
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:54,000
on the ground a dirty ground near a

790
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:56,880
brick wall a very old brick wall

791
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:59,039
and another device which i can't quite

792
00:33:02,870 --> 00:33:00,240
make out

793
00:33:05,430 --> 00:33:02,880
again it's at night and

794
00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:05,440
also on the screen is a question

795
00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:08,320
what's at the tower

796
00:33:16,190 --> 00:33:11,200
presumably they're at an historic site

797
00:33:21,029 --> 00:33:18,549
[Music]

798
00:33:24,030 --> 00:33:21,039
you can see here

799
00:33:24,030 --> 00:33:24,040
please

800
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:29,360
[Music]

801
00:33:29,370 --> 00:33:51,590
[Applause]

802
00:33:51,600 --> 00:34:01,029
hi carol

803
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:02,310
now i'll make the point here that you

804
00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:04,159
can often hear these people

805
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:05,760
saying random things as if they're

806
00:34:08,710 --> 00:34:07,200
talking to people on the phone actually

807
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:08,720
what they're doing is they're looking at

808
00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:12,159
the live screen as they broadcast and

809
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:13,919
they can see comments and questions sent

810
00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:17,280
in by viewers instantly so often they

811
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:19,119
will simply respond to those questions

812
00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:20,720
that are put on the screen but it sounds

813
00:34:24,310 --> 00:34:22,720
a little bit disjointed when you can't

814
00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:24,320
see that

815
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:25,919
and now we have an account called

816
00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:28,240
seeking underscore the underscore

817
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:30,720
unknown seeking the unknown and seeking

818
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:33,440
the unknown and friends are in

819
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:36,800
what could be an abandoned house

820
00:34:42,550 --> 00:34:40,879
in a sad state of disrepair

821
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:42,560
with another bear

822
00:34:46,629 --> 00:34:44,480
another stuffed little bear on a little

823
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:46,639
cushion on the floor which the carpet's

824
00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:49,200
been ripped off and the only light

825
00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:51,839
source comes from them i would presume

826
00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:53,599
but in this case

827
00:35:00,310 --> 00:34:57,760
the light source is continually strobing

828
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,320
continually strobing like a disco let's

829
00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:02,480
have a listen i'll touch the bear or the

830
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:07,589
missed

831
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:13,760
now jamie in there night middle i'll say

832
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:16,480
don't forget your screenshots guys that

833
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:19,599
were weird i was never ever

834
00:35:24,630 --> 00:35:22,320
seen that before

835
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:24,640
and we do enough color changing lights

836
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:26,079
to know

837
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:28,720
if it's if it was that or not yeah you

838
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:31,520
can't get a light behind you no no when

839
00:35:37,109 --> 00:35:33,280
we're facing that way it lights all that

840
00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:38,630
copycat

841
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:43,839
because you've amazed

842
00:35:48,150 --> 00:35:46,079
we're all amazed

843
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:48,160
now while before we were concentrating

844
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:50,720
on audio paradolia this one

845
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:54,560
seems to be using strobing lights to

846
00:35:59,430 --> 00:35:56,640
possibly set up classical visual

847
00:36:01,990 --> 00:35:59,440
paradolia so i guess they're seeing

848
00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:02,000
things as the lights flicker and they're

849
00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:03,599
interpreting that as

850
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:05,920
a ghostly presence

851
00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:08,960
and finally to wrap up one more from sos

852
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:10,240
paranormal

853
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:12,640
and it looks like they're in an

854
00:36:16,790 --> 00:36:14,640
abandoned factory or possibly something

855
00:36:19,510 --> 00:36:16,800
like that lots of graffiti on the wall

856
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:19,520
and they have their camera focused

857
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:21,680
at some distance on a candle near the

858
00:36:28,069 --> 00:36:26,470
any are there any

859
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:28,079
is there any secret places underneath

860
00:36:34,630 --> 00:36:29,359
here

861
00:36:41,740 --> 00:36:36,470
yeah i'm good thank you jessica how are

862
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:47,430
[Music]

863
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:53,030
i hope they think we're good karen

864
00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:54,870
that's how i try and come across do you

865
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:56,960
think we're good

866
00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:59,920
i'm sliced by the way i don't

867
00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:02,160
so i don't know what actually idc means

868
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:04,079
i don't know

869
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:10,390
so again lots of the time they're simply

870
00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:11,920
talking back to the people who are

871
00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:12,960
viewing

872
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:16,160
and at that particular moment

873
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:17,599
3

874
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:19,200
600 people

875
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:21,119
including myself were viewing the

876
00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:22,400
activities of

877
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:24,720
sos paranormal

878
00:37:29,030 --> 00:37:26,880
and the ghostly voices you heard are

879
00:37:29,910 --> 00:37:29,040
being generated by some

880
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:29,920
app

881
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:34,079
designed to make the voices sound rather

882
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:35,520
um

883
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:36,160
ghostly

884
00:37:44,950 --> 00:37:42,000
[Music]

885
00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:44,960
tick-tock ghost hunters live

886
00:37:49,750 --> 00:37:48,000
live people looking for dead people

887
00:37:51,510 --> 00:37:49,760
part of the endless 24-hour

888
00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:51,520
entertainment cycle

889
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:54,640
or a serious investigation to look for

890
00:38:12,230 --> 00:37:56,330
ghosts

891
00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:14,470
i'm mick west in my podcast tales from

892
00:38:17,109 --> 00:38:15,680
the rabbit hole i have extended

893
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:17,119
conversations with people who've been

894
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:19,440
involved in conspiracy culture i do this

895
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:21,119
for a couple of reasons firstly because

896
00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:22,400
it's really interesting these people

897
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:24,079
have great stories about how they fell

898
00:38:27,589 --> 00:38:25,760
down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole

899
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:27,599
what they did down there and what it was

900
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:29,520
to help them out sometimes i also talk

901
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:31,119
to people who investigate conspiracy

902
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:32,160
theories and they have equally

903
00:38:36,069 --> 00:38:34,160
fascinating stories from the other side

904
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:36,079
secondly i want to understand how best

905
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:37,520
to prevent the spread of conspiracy

906
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:39,040
theories and misinformation which is an

907
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:40,640
increasing problem in a time when

908
00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:43,040
alternative media is exploding the best

909
00:38:46,710 --> 00:38:44,720
way to do this is to communicate

910
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:46,720
effectively with the people involved and

911
00:38:50,069 --> 00:38:48,640
the best way to do that is with a nice

912
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:50,079
long chat

913
00:38:55,100 --> 00:38:52,640
check it out tales from the rabbit hole

914
00:39:13,349 --> 00:38:55,110
tftrh.com

915
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:13,359
[Music]

916
00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:15,200
now it's time once again to head back to

917
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:18,079
those digital archives from around the

918
00:39:20,390 --> 00:39:19,040
world

919
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:20,400
normally of course

920
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:22,160
we look at australian newspapers and

921
00:39:28,430 --> 00:39:25,520
magazines and so on the digitized

922
00:39:31,109 --> 00:39:28,440
treasure trove that is at

923
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:31,119
trove.nla.gov.a you have a look but

924
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:32,640
today we're going once again we're going

925
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:34,079
further afield

926
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:36,560
to the united states

927
00:39:40,870 --> 00:39:38,160
and i've been thinking about my old

928
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:40,880
friend james randy recently

929
00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:43,200
some of his books are right on the shelf

930
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:44,480
here

931
00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:46,320
in the studio

932
00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:48,240
so i thought we'd do once again we'd do

933
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:50,079
another search and see what we could

934
00:39:58,550 --> 00:39:53,280
find in the uh printed history for james

935
00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:00,470
now maybe for you just like me james

936
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:02,800
randy was a huge influence

937
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:06,640
and i learned so much from his books and

938
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:09,839
there's quite a wealth of um james randy

939
00:40:14,230 --> 00:40:13,200
online especially on youtube of course

940
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:14,240
if you

941
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:16,240
look for james randy you can see tv

942
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:18,880
specials he did documentaries

943
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:20,720
investigations and so on and you can

944
00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:23,119
learn an awful lot from that

945
00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:25,200
but i learned i learned quite a lot from

946
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:26,800
the man himself

947
00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:28,640
and we became very good friends over the

948
00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:29,760
years

949
00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:31,920
and uh every now and then i think to

950
00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:33,599
myself wouldn't it be nice to fly once

951
00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:36,560
more to las vegas and spend some time

952
00:40:41,589 --> 00:40:39,359
at the amazing meeting with james randy

953
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:41,599
however we can still

954
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:43,760
look to these archives and see what we

955
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:44,720
can find

956
00:40:47,829 --> 00:40:46,000
[Music]

957
00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:47,839
and our first port of call comes to us

958
00:40:53,910 --> 00:40:50,480
from the dover times reporter dated the

959
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:53,920
13th of march 1984

960
00:40:59,109 --> 00:40:57,119
magician told to stay away

961
00:41:03,990 --> 00:40:59,119
from columbus

962
00:41:09,270 --> 00:41:06,710
columbus associated press

963
00:41:12,069 --> 00:41:09,280
a magician says he should be allowed in

964
00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:12,079
the john and joan resch home

965
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:14,000
to help determine whether sleight of

966
00:41:18,390 --> 00:41:16,480
hand or something supernatural is

967
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:18,400
causing objects to

968
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:20,160
spontaneously

969
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:22,079
move around

970
00:41:28,230 --> 00:41:25,680
but mrs resh said monday that she might

971
00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:28,240
not allow magician james randy to join

972
00:41:33,750 --> 00:41:30,720
two case western reserve university

973
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:33,760
scientists who want to visit the house

974
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:36,000
today if you're going to detect a

975
00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:39,200
burglar you need a burglar randy said

976
00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:41,280
and because he feels

977
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:43,680
most unexplained activity is the result

978
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:45,920
of sleight of hand

979
00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:48,800
you bring in a magician an expert in

980
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:50,480
sleight of hand

981
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:52,560
two other investigators have visited the

982
00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:54,400
house and said they hoped to have a

983
00:41:58,630 --> 00:41:57,839
preliminary report ready by the weekend

984
00:41:59,589 --> 00:41:58,640
bill

985
00:42:01,750 --> 00:41:59,599
roll

986
00:42:03,990 --> 00:42:01,760
director of the psychical research

987
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:04,000
foundation of chapel hill

988
00:42:10,069 --> 00:42:06,640
north carolina and assistant kelly

989
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:10,079
powers arrived sunday to seek the cause

990
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:12,000
of the disturbances which the family

991
00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:15,760
says began 10 days ago and seem to focus

992
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:17,599
on fourteen-year-old

993
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,960
tina mrs resh said it had been quiet

994
00:42:25,430 --> 00:42:22,800
since objects flew

995
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:25,440
furniture moved and pictures rattled

996
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:27,040
sunday morning

997
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:29,040
roland powers brought video an audio

998
00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:30,640
recording devices

999
00:42:34,790 --> 00:42:32,240
but roll said

1000
00:42:37,510 --> 00:42:34,800
the first and most reliable tool is

1001
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:37,520
common sense what you're looking for are

1002
00:42:42,309 --> 00:42:39,599
normal ways in which this person can

1003
00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:42,319
perpetrate these acts by conscious or

1004
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:45,040
unconscious manipulation powers who

1005
00:42:49,589 --> 00:42:46,640
describes himself as a clinical

1006
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:49,599
psychologist who has studied such

1007
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:51,839
incidences for eight years

1008
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:53,839
said all of the possibilities have to be

1009
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:56,560
eliminated before investigators will

1010
00:43:02,069 --> 00:42:59,760
consider psychic phenomena

1011
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:02,079
powers said they will look for patterns

1012
00:43:08,790 --> 00:43:05,359
in the trajectory direction distance and

1013
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:08,800
velocity of moving objects as well as

1014
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:11,520
their proximity to tina

1015
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:12,400
roll

1016
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:14,960
author of the poltergeist

1017
00:43:20,390 --> 00:43:17,920
said his foundation has studied three

1018
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:20,400
dozen similar cases he said one-third of

1019
00:43:25,589 --> 00:43:22,960
the cases was disproved

1020
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:25,599
one-third yield inconclusive findings

1021
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:27,839
and one-third was determined to be

1022
00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:31,520
recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis

1023
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:33,440
the unconscious ability of some

1024
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:35,440
individuals to affect the movement of

1025
00:43:40,230 --> 00:43:37,760
objects in their immediate physical

1026
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:40,240
environment randy is part of a group

1027
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:41,760
called the committee for the scientific

1028
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:43,200
investigation of claims of the

1029
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:45,599
paranormal also coming with randy are

1030
00:43:50,309 --> 00:43:47,839
nicholas sandluck astronomer and

1031
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:50,319
research associate at case western

1032
00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:53,359
reserve and fellow faculty member

1033
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:54,800
stephen shaw

1034
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:56,880
if it's scientists or astronomers who

1035
00:44:02,630 --> 00:44:00,400
are interested in it fine mrs resh said

1036
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:02,640
they can visit but the magician is not

1037
00:44:07,990 --> 00:44:04,880
going to visit the committee says it has

1038
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:08,000
debunked as hoaxes numerous claims of

1039
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:10,720
paranormal incidents whenever there is a

1040
00:44:14,390 --> 00:44:12,880
possibility of hoaxing involved there

1041
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:14,400
should be a professional magician

1042
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:16,880
present shaw said he

1043
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:19,440
randy is a better observer than we are

1044
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:20,800
in some things

1045
00:44:25,790 --> 00:44:23,520
he's more expert at detecting any form

1046
00:44:29,349 --> 00:44:25,800
of trickery than any of the

1047
00:44:31,349 --> 00:44:29,359
parasycologists and they will admit it

1048
00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:31,359
so there we go i wonder what happened i

1049
00:44:36,950 --> 00:44:34,000
wonder if randy ever made it in to

1050
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:36,960
investigate that particular

1051
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:38,079
event

1052
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:40,480
and now we skip forward many years to

1053
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:46,950
published in the selena journal

1054
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:50,400
on thursday the 1st of january and this

1055
00:44:56,630 --> 00:44:53,119
is a story by james talley

1056
00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:56,640
he's looking for a few good flakes

1057
00:45:02,829 --> 00:44:59,520
in a world so fast-paced and advanced

1058
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:02,839
where a few of us can even program our

1059
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:04,400
vcrs

1060
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:07,119
we have neither the time nor luxury for

1061
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:10,240
confusing claptrap and illusions that

1062
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:11,440
parade as

1063
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:13,200
illumination

1064
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:15,680
believe it or not florida magician puts

1065
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:18,720
a bounty on paranormal claims

1066
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:21,280
the new year is upon us

1067
00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:23,040
time to reflect on our friendly

1068
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:26,720
forecasters the professional psychics i

1069
00:45:31,670 --> 00:45:28,480
won't bore you with the national

1070
00:45:35,309 --> 00:45:31,680
enquirer's psychic strikeouts this year

1071
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:35,319
and i'm saving the 1 800 hotlines for

1072
00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:38,640
1999 a year more pregnant with

1073
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:40,160
possibilities

1074
00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:42,800
this year it's time to put your money

1075
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:44,720
where your powers are

1076
00:45:51,670 --> 00:45:48,240
correction you risk no money

1077
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:51,680
and you stain to gain gobs of it i'm

1078
00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:53,359
talking about the challenge an

1079
00:45:58,829 --> 00:45:56,400
international dare to those professing

1080
00:46:01,750 --> 00:45:58,839
to possess paranormal

1081
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:01,760
abilities bend a spoon or two

1082
00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:05,920
walk away with 1.1 million

1083
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:08,400
sponsored by the james randy educational

1084
00:46:12,630 --> 00:46:10,720
foundation of fort lauderdale

1085
00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:12,640
challenge rules are basic

1086
00:46:17,349 --> 00:46:15,040
you and the james randy educational

1087
00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:17,359
foundation agree on experimental

1088
00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:19,520
parameters what will and won't

1089
00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:21,440
constitute definitive proof of your

1090
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:25,280
powers you go to florida and show your

1091
00:46:29,190 --> 00:46:26,560
stuff

1092
00:46:33,670 --> 00:46:29,200
if you're for real james randy and other

1093
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:33,680
pledges will fork over a cool million

1094
00:46:37,910 --> 00:46:36,480
what's more you may get to see mr randy

1095
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:37,920
eat his hat

1096
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:41,760
randy also known as the amazing randy 69

1097
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:44,160
is a man with a mission

1098
00:46:49,349 --> 00:46:46,560
he's not out to save souls under the

1099
00:46:52,870 --> 00:46:49,359
challenged tutelage of a spirit guide

1100
00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:52,880
the renowned magician rationalist author

1101
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:55,040
is perhaps the world's most famous

1102
00:47:01,829 --> 00:46:59,040
exposer of fraud in mata's supernatural

1103
00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:01,839
he's debunked yuri galen nostradamus and

1104
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:03,920
con games galore

1105
00:47:08,470 --> 00:47:05,359
think of him as

1106
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:08,480
agent scully with a beard although randy

1107
00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:10,400
wouldn't put up with half of mulder's

1108
00:47:16,069 --> 00:47:11,599
nonsense

1109
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:17,589
is real

1110
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:20,240
so is his challenge

1111
00:47:26,069 --> 00:47:22,800
the prize money no one knows

1112
00:47:28,230 --> 00:47:26,079
out of 78 who began negotiations

1113
00:47:30,549 --> 00:47:28,240
none have seen it through preferring to

1114
00:47:32,470 --> 00:47:30,559
quit when randy insists on rigorous

1115
00:47:35,109 --> 00:47:32,480
scientific methodology

1116
00:47:37,349 --> 00:47:35,119
homeopaths hedged

1117
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:37,359
douses the murder

1118
00:47:43,109 --> 00:47:39,839
even the maker of the laundry ball a

1119
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:43,119
device alleged to ironize the ickies off

1120
00:47:47,349 --> 00:47:44,800
your clothes

1121
00:47:49,829 --> 00:47:47,359
decided not to take the plunge

1122
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:49,839
small wonder most of these montebanks

1123
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:51,040
make more

1124
00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:52,400
muller

1125
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:54,480
than the dnc

1126
00:47:58,950 --> 00:47:56,800
why submit to testing when you could

1127
00:48:01,910 --> 00:47:58,960
derail your gravy train

1128
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:01,920
randy can't give accurate figures on the

1129
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:04,400
paranormal industry's revenues

1130
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:06,480
it's like trying to determine how much

1131
00:48:10,549 --> 00:48:08,800
bookies make but he estimates it's a

1132
00:48:12,790 --> 00:48:10,559
billion-dollar swindle

1133
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:12,800
cop-out cranks make randy more cranky

1134
00:48:17,349 --> 00:48:15,119
than usual nothing would please him more

1135
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:17,359
than to put his favorite con artists to

1136
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:20,400
the test and his targets vary widely

1137
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:23,280
from televangelists to psychic hotlines

1138
00:48:28,829 --> 00:48:25,599
to tmrs

1139
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:28,839
and i think tm in the tmers stands for

1140
00:48:34,470 --> 00:48:31,920
transcendental meditation

1141
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:34,480
it goes on the latter's claim that their

1142
00:48:38,630 --> 00:48:36,880
discipline confers invulnerability

1143
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:38,640
prompted randy to devise a simple

1144
00:48:42,549 --> 00:48:40,000
experiment

1145
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:42,559
he'd swing a baseball bat and

1146
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:43,680
dot dot

1147
00:48:47,589 --> 00:48:45,440
what's his real beef

1148
00:48:49,990 --> 00:48:47,599
i'm finding people being swindled by

1149
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:50,000
things they don't understand he said

1150
00:48:54,069 --> 00:48:52,240
they'll invest their lives in it in some

1151
00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:54,079
cases you don't know how many people

1152
00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:55,920
literally go down the drain financially

1153
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:57,760
and emotionally because they depend on

1154
00:49:01,829 --> 00:48:59,760
these things i feel like the fellow who

1155
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:01,839
sees somebody struck by a car and

1156
00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:03,839
decides he better do something about it

1157
00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:05,920
but don't the gullible reap what they

1158
00:49:09,670 --> 00:49:06,960
sow

1159
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:09,680
randy doesn't see it that way in fact he

1160
00:49:14,790 --> 00:49:12,000
predicts a class-action lawsuit against

1161
00:49:16,630 --> 00:49:14,800
telephone psychics in the near future

1162
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:16,640
though he's frustrated by the lack of

1163
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:18,400
governmental outrage

1164
00:49:25,349 --> 00:49:22,079
at these scams outrage needed for real

1165
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:25,359
education campaigns and crackdowns with

1166
00:49:28,630 --> 00:49:26,240
teeth

1167
00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:28,640
it's popular to believe in seemingly

1168
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:32,960
harmless hokum so politicians sit silent

1169
00:49:37,589 --> 00:49:35,040
they care more about being elected than

1170
00:49:38,790 --> 00:49:37,599
making sure people are fairly treated he

1171
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:38,800
fumes

1172
00:49:44,790 --> 00:49:41,280
the deeper evil in the paranormal he

1173
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:44,800
maintains is how it muddies our thinking

1174
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:47,040
in a world so fast-paced and advanced

1175
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:49,040
where a few of us can even program our

1176
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:52,480
vcrs we have neither the time nor luxury

1177
00:49:56,829 --> 00:49:55,040
for confusing clap traps and illusions

1178
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:56,839
that parade as

1179
00:50:02,549 --> 00:49:59,760
illumination and that may be

1180
00:50:05,670 --> 00:50:02,559
at base what keeps him going

1181
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:05,680
pawning off as mystical truth tricks

1182
00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:09,680
originally devised to delight may offend

1183
00:50:12,390 --> 00:50:11,119
the amazing randy's sense of

1184
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:12,400
professional ethics

1185
00:50:16,710 --> 00:50:15,680
could randy's reward go to other causes

1186
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:16,720
perhaps

1187
00:50:21,190 --> 00:50:19,200
but he's even used that point to entice

1188
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:21,200
fence sitters into the challenge

1189
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:23,200
back in 1968

1190
00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:25,440
when he first made his dare the prize

1191
00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:28,160
was a mere 10 grand too little folks

1192
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:31,920
said now they balk at seven figures

1193
00:50:37,030 --> 00:50:35,119
feigning selflessness fine

1194
00:50:38,790 --> 00:50:37,040
randy tells them don't do it for the

1195
00:50:41,430 --> 00:50:38,800
money do it for the satisfaction of

1196
00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:41,440
making me look like a fool and give the

1197
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:43,520
money to aids research or starving

1198
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:46,800
children still no takers to satisfy the

1199
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:49,040
skeptic crusader

1200
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:50,880
and for those who insist that such

1201
00:50:55,510 --> 00:50:53,040
intelligence insulting gimmicks as

1202
00:50:57,430 --> 00:50:55,520
stimulators and chakra massage are

1203
00:50:58,630 --> 00:50:57,440
simply entertainment

1204
00:51:00,630 --> 00:50:58,640
or worse

1205
00:51:03,190 --> 00:51:00,640
first amendment protected rights on par

1206
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:03,200
with the world's major religions randy

1207
00:51:08,630 --> 00:51:06,160
sighs and returns to his vehicular

1208
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:08,640
assault metaphor if a fellow wants to

1209
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:10,800
climb back into the traffic again that's

1210
00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:12,160
his business

1211
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:14,240
and at the bottom it says james talley

1212
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:16,720
is a selena writer and editor you can

1213
00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:18,880
send him a message or read his other

1214
00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:22,480
work through his world wide webpage

1215
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,990
jtelly4n6

1216
00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:33,829
and i guess that sort of dates it as

1217
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:34,640
well

1218
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:36,559
and we have one more on james the

1219
00:51:43,230 --> 00:51:39,520
amazing randy going forward a few months

1220
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:43,240
to the news herald dated the 31st of may

1221
00:51:47,430 --> 00:51:44,880
1998

1222
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:47,440
by john percenty the associated press

1223
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:50,400
and the title of the article is that's

1224
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:54,240
bunk skeptic james randy still targeting

1225
00:51:57,190 --> 00:51:55,440
nonsense

1226
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:57,200
fort lauderdale

1227
00:52:00,870 --> 00:51:58,640
scattered among hundreds of books

1228
00:52:02,390 --> 00:52:00,880
ranging from the scientific to the

1229
00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:02,400
supernatural

1230
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:05,280
are a variety of toys that renowned

1231
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:08,240
skeptic james randy keeps in his library

1232
00:52:14,150 --> 00:52:11,040
there's gene dixon's horoscope predictor

1233
00:52:17,270 --> 00:52:14,160
looking like a big pink calculator and

1234
00:52:19,349 --> 00:52:17,280
yuri geller's mind power kit and don't

1235
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:19,359
overlook the do-it-yourself dowser kit

1236
00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:21,359
complete with numerous wish-bone-shaped

1237
00:52:26,549 --> 00:52:24,559
wands to find water and ore

1238
00:52:28,230 --> 00:52:26,559
we always keep up with the devil

1239
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:28,240
i have one thing that bothers the hell

1240
00:52:32,549 --> 00:52:30,800
out of me and that's kids being swindled

1241
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:32,559
or misinformed

1242
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:33,839
it's been more than a quarter of a

1243
00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:36,800
century since randy exposed geller

1244
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:39,839
an israeli claiming to bend spoons with

1245
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:42,960
his mind and 12 years since the amazing

1246
00:52:47,430 --> 00:52:45,040
randy became the first magician to

1247
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:47,440
receive a prestigious macarthur

1248
00:52:52,230 --> 00:52:49,040
foundation grant

1249
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:52,240
still he still finds plenty of nonsense

1250
00:52:56,549 --> 00:52:54,640
to expose randy has written several

1251
00:53:00,069 --> 00:52:56,559
books debunking everything from faith

1252
00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:00,079
healers to unicorns and the 16th century

1253
00:53:05,589 --> 00:53:03,359
sia nostradamus the sacred cows of

1254
00:53:08,549 --> 00:53:05,599
alternative medicine are turned into

1255
00:53:10,150 --> 00:53:08,559
hamburger by randy's hyper rationalist

1256
00:53:12,630 --> 00:53:10,160
analysis

1257
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:12,640
chiropractors are shams in his

1258
00:53:18,309 --> 00:53:15,760
professional opinion as a homeopathic

1259
00:53:20,710 --> 00:53:18,319
medicine and therapeutic touch

1260
00:53:23,510 --> 00:53:20,720
in many ways randy's greatest trick

1261
00:53:26,069 --> 00:53:23,520
could be his transformation from a

1262
00:53:27,030 --> 00:53:26,079
novelty act on the johnny carson tonight

1263
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:27,040
show

1264
00:53:32,390 --> 00:53:30,240
to a first-rate consumer advocate he

1265
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:32,400
frequently writes magazines such as

1266
00:53:37,750 --> 00:53:35,760
skeptic discover and scientific american

1267
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:37,760
i see people being swindled every day by

1268
00:53:43,349 --> 00:53:40,880
medical quackery frauds of every sort

1269
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:43,359
psychics and their hotlines people who

1270
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:45,119
claim to be able to find lost children

1271
00:53:48,630 --> 00:53:47,760
or help them invest their money randy

1272
00:53:50,390 --> 00:53:48,640
said

1273
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:50,400
i know they are being swindled because i

1274
00:53:56,710 --> 00:53:52,800
know the methods being used

1275
00:54:00,470 --> 00:53:56,720
looking like a modern day merlin he has

1276
00:54:02,710 --> 00:54:00,480
been described as a giddy leprechaun

1277
00:54:05,030 --> 00:54:02,720
randy speaks a mile a minute blinking

1278
00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:05,040
constantly with nervous energy he

1279
00:54:10,309 --> 00:54:08,000
performs sleight of hand the way some

1280
00:54:12,950 --> 00:54:10,319
twiddle their thumbs a crumpled napkin

1281
00:54:16,950 --> 00:54:12,960
disappears and reappears at one point in

1282
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:16,960
the interview as it orbits randy's hands

1283
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:19,440
like a tiny white planet

1284
00:54:23,750 --> 00:54:21,920
photos of his days as a magician dot the

1285
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:23,760
walls of the james randy educational

1286
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:26,160
foundation his non-profit debunking

1287
00:54:29,990 --> 00:54:27,280
fortress

1288
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:30,000
one shows randy covered in snaking

1289
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:31,200
chains

1290
00:54:36,549 --> 00:54:34,160
in another he dangles in a straitjacket

1291
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:36,559
over niagara falls new york

1292
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:39,359
born randall james hamilton zinger in

1293
00:54:43,990 --> 00:54:42,079
toronto in 1928 he dropped out of high

1294
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:44,000
school and joined a carnival he

1295
00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:46,400
performed his magic at the white house

1296
00:54:50,950 --> 00:54:49,119
and inspired some of today's most

1297
00:54:53,030 --> 00:54:50,960
prominent tricksters

1298
00:54:55,750 --> 00:54:53,040
penn gillette of penn teller said he was

1299
00:54:56,870 --> 00:54:55,760
18 when he saw randy speak and his life

1300
00:54:59,430 --> 00:54:56,880
changed

1301
00:55:02,710 --> 00:54:59,440
being ripped off by a cheap esp kid as a

1302
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:02,720
pre-teen he hated both science and magic

1303
00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:05,359
until randy convinced him otherwise

1304
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:07,680
the whole 22-year career of panatella

1305
00:55:12,230 --> 00:55:10,000
can be attributed to randy gillette the

1306
00:55:14,309 --> 00:55:12,240
more vocal of the performance euro said

1307
00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:14,319
from las vegas where the pair was

1308
00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:16,960
performing he's a national treasure he's

1309
00:55:21,349 --> 00:55:19,200
someone who will go against any sort of

1310
00:55:24,309 --> 00:55:21,359
establishment that says it is okay to

1311
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:24,319
lie to people and that is a real radical

1312
00:55:27,829 --> 00:55:26,960
notion today not everybody is a randy

1313
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:27,839
fan

1314
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:30,720
miss dixon the late astrologer once said

1315
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:34,480
of randy he's crazy isn't he paranormal

1316
00:55:39,270 --> 00:55:37,440
scientists seethe at the mention of

1317
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:39,280
randy calling him an opportunist and

1318
00:55:44,069 --> 00:55:41,520
publicity hound when christopher

1319
00:55:45,430 --> 00:55:44,079
columbus asked queen isabella to sail to

1320
00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:45,440
the new world

1321
00:55:49,589 --> 00:55:47,119
james would have been the little guy

1322
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:49,599
standing there saying the world is flat

1323
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:51,920
man you're going to fall off

1324
00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:53,920
said larry montz of the international

1325
00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:56,400
society for paranormal research in los

1326
00:55:59,670 --> 00:55:58,079
angeles

1327
00:56:01,589 --> 00:55:59,680
and i'll just quickly

1328
00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:01,599
break in here and say yes i've heard all

1329
00:56:06,309 --> 00:56:03,680
these arguments too all these

1330
00:56:08,230 --> 00:56:06,319
uh ridiculous statements from the new

1331
00:56:10,309 --> 00:56:08,240
age and the paranormal people

1332
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:10,319
completely and utterly

1333
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:12,559
misrepresenting what the skeptical point

1334
00:56:16,789 --> 00:56:15,119
of view is that's no surprise

1335
00:56:19,030 --> 00:56:16,799
we read on

1336
00:56:21,190 --> 00:56:19,040
randy was wowing audiences with his

1337
00:56:25,190 --> 00:56:21,200
escape routines for more than a decade

1338
00:56:27,510 --> 00:56:25,200
when in 1971 he targeted geller who had

1339
00:56:31,589 --> 00:56:27,520
convinced a few scientists he could

1340
00:56:34,150 --> 00:56:31,599
twist flatware through psychokinesis

1341
00:56:37,109 --> 00:56:34,160
in a celebrated show randy helped carson

1342
00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:37,119
set up the psychic in 1972 the spoons

1343
00:56:42,549 --> 00:56:38,960
and other props were kept from geller's

1344
00:56:44,789 --> 00:56:42,559
hands until showtime so no tampering

1345
00:56:47,349 --> 00:56:44,799
would be possible geller set for an

1346
00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:47,359
agonizing 22 minutes unable to perform

1347
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:48,480
any tricks

1348
00:56:53,430 --> 00:56:50,319
randy also debunked a so-called

1349
00:56:55,589 --> 00:56:53,440
possessed teenage girl from ohio

1350
00:56:59,750 --> 00:56:55,599
anderson louis parapsychological

1351
00:57:02,470 --> 00:56:59,760
laboratory he found a boy who reportedly

1352
00:57:05,190 --> 00:57:02,480
vanished in the bermuda triangle

1353
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:05,200
biking down his neighborhood street in

1354
00:57:10,150 --> 00:57:08,240
rumsom new jersey randy hounded faith

1355
00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:10,160
healers showing up in the skies at

1356
00:57:16,150 --> 00:57:13,359
revivals he continues to dispel the myth

1357
00:57:19,109 --> 00:57:16,160
of crop circles and mocks homeopathic

1358
00:57:22,150 --> 00:57:19,119
concoctions saying they contain not a

1359
00:57:24,150 --> 00:57:22,160
trace of real medicine he has been sued

1360
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:24,160
more times than he can remember but

1361
00:57:29,870 --> 00:57:27,359
never successfully in 1986 his work was

1362
00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:29,880
legitimized when he received a

1363
00:57:34,150 --> 00:57:32,240
272 thousand dollar

1364
00:57:35,510 --> 00:57:34,160
genius grant from the macarthur

1365
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:35,520
foundation

1366
00:57:43,870 --> 00:57:40,720
offers a 1 million dollar award to

1367
00:57:46,230 --> 00:57:43,880
anyone who can prove what he calls the

1368
00:57:49,109 --> 00:57:46,240
pseudosciences he investigates

1369
00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:49,119
outrageous claims and doles out annual

1370
00:57:56,230 --> 00:57:52,720
pegasus awards a play on when pigs can

1371
00:57:58,950 --> 00:57:56,240
fly two recipients this year were abc tv

1372
00:58:00,069 --> 00:57:58,960
for purporting new age notions without

1373
00:58:02,309 --> 00:58:00,079
question

1374
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:02,319
and the national institutes of health

1375
00:58:08,630 --> 00:58:05,040
which budgeted 20 million dollars into

1376
00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:08,640
research for alternative healing randy

1377
00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:11,440
honors fellow debunkers and last month

1378
00:58:17,430 --> 00:58:13,920
bestowed a one thousand dollar award on

1379
00:58:18,630 --> 00:58:17,440
a 12 year old emily rosa of loveland

1380
00:58:21,190 --> 00:58:18,640
colorado

1381
00:58:24,150 --> 00:58:21,200
she found that 21 experienced

1382
00:58:26,950 --> 00:58:24,160
practitioners of therapeutic touch were

1383
00:58:29,589 --> 00:58:26,960
unable to detect the energy field they

1384
00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:29,599
claim to manipulate to treat

1385
00:58:33,430 --> 00:58:31,920
everything from cancer to burns

1386
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:33,440
emily's study was published in the

1387
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:35,200
journal of the american medical

1388
00:58:40,390 --> 00:58:37,920
association in april randy says

1389
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:40,400
therapeutic touch often takes advantage

1390
00:58:44,870 --> 00:58:43,040
of the sickly and elderly wildly

1391
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:44,880
tricksters charging up to seventy

1392
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:46,319
dollars a session

1393
00:58:51,589 --> 00:58:48,880
if this isn't sure quackery juvenile

1394
00:58:53,349 --> 00:58:51,599
fantasy mythology it's all of the

1395
00:58:55,829 --> 00:58:53,359
negative things you can say about an

1396
00:58:58,950 --> 00:58:55,839
idea or theory he says

1397
00:59:01,589 --> 00:58:58,960
linda rosa emily's mother says randy

1398
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:01,599
inspires young people encouraging them

1399
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:04,640
not to accept pseudosciences

1400
00:59:07,510 --> 00:59:06,319
i think we are on the verge of a

1401
00:59:10,549 --> 00:59:07,520
movement here

1402
00:59:12,789 --> 00:59:10,559
ms rosa said as my daughter says

1403
00:59:15,450 --> 00:59:12,799
catching adults doing silly things is

1404
00:59:19,510 --> 00:59:15,460
fun

1405
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:22,069
and there we go just a few just a mere

1406
00:59:26,069 --> 00:59:24,480
smattering of the many articles and

1407
00:59:28,309 --> 00:59:26,079
reports over the years especially from

1408
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:28,319
u.s papers regarding

1409
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:31,920
my old mate who i miss very much james

1410
00:59:39,190 --> 00:59:33,170
the amazing randy

1411
00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:39,200
[Music]

1412
00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:41,040
but you too can look up all sorts of

1413
00:59:45,190 --> 00:59:42,720
interesting things like paranormal

1414
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:45,200
testing or james randy or astrology or

1415
00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:47,040
whatever you want to look up

1416
00:59:51,190 --> 00:59:49,920
by visiting maybe your local newspaper

1417
00:59:53,349 --> 00:59:51,200
archives

1418
00:59:55,270 --> 00:59:53,359
from wherever you are in the world

1419
00:59:58,950 --> 00:59:55,280
and of course you're more than welcome

1420
01:00:00,870 --> 00:59:58,960
to visit the australian archives at

1421
01:00:03,030 --> 01:00:00,880
a trove.nla.gov.eu but no matter where

1422
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:03,040
you're searching you'll never know

1423
01:00:07,050 --> 01:00:26,470
[Music]

1424
01:00:30,309 --> 01:00:28,150
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1425
01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:30,319
zone podcast coming up on next week's

1426
01:00:33,750 --> 01:00:31,280
show

1427
01:00:36,549 --> 01:00:33,760
a report about mind body wallet here in

1428
01:00:38,390 --> 01:00:36,559
sydney yes it's on again

1429
01:00:40,549 --> 01:00:38,400
later today i'm heading downtown to

1430
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:40,559
visit mind body wallet microphone in

1431
01:00:43,349 --> 01:00:41,520
hand

1432
01:00:45,270 --> 01:00:43,359
and i will

1433
01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:45,280
see what i find sometimes

1434
01:00:49,990 --> 01:00:47,520
sometimes i don't discover too much down

1435
01:00:51,750 --> 01:00:50,000
there sometimes i discover the most

1436
01:00:54,390 --> 01:00:51,760
outrageous

1437
01:00:56,710 --> 01:00:54,400
bizarre things so we'll see

1438
01:00:57,670 --> 01:00:56,720
also next week we have a trove segment

1439
01:01:00,470 --> 01:00:57,680
about

1440
01:01:02,390 --> 01:01:00,480
a dowsing school for students

1441
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:02,400
i suppose school is for students isn't

1442
01:01:07,190 --> 01:01:03,359
it

1443
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:07,200
and this is a story from the year 2001.

1444
01:01:10,870 --> 01:01:08,880
thank you to those people who continue

1445
01:01:13,349 --> 01:01:10,880
to support the skeptic zone at patreon

1446
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:13,359
or paypal at skepticzone.tv

1447
01:01:17,910 --> 01:01:15,359
and thank you to those new supporters

1448
01:01:18,870 --> 01:01:17,920
just come on board i hope you enjoy the

1449
01:01:23,349 --> 01:01:18,880
show

1450
01:01:25,430 --> 01:01:23,359
it's because of you i'm able to buy the

1451
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:25,440
equipment to do for example the

1452
01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:27,599
interview with dr shavonna savilin that

1453
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:29,760
you just heard this week on the show

1454
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:32,240
taking my portable equipment purchased

1455
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:34,160
with funds from

1456
01:01:39,510 --> 01:01:37,200
your generous support so yes

1457
01:01:41,829 --> 01:01:39,520
thank you very much

1458
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:41,839
but for this week this is richard

1459
01:01:50,950 --> 01:01:45,200
saunders signing off from sunny sydney

1460
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:52,710
you've been listening to the skeptic

1461
01:01:55,589 --> 01:01:54,160
zone podcast

1462
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:55,599
please visit our website at

1463
01:02:04,390 --> 01:02:01,829
for show notes contacts and to access

1464
01:02:06,549 --> 01:02:04,400
the back catalog of episodes going back

1465
01:02:08,549 --> 01:02:06,559
to 2008.

1466
01:02:11,270 --> 01:02:08,559
you can follow the skepticzone podcast

1467
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:11,280
on twitter at skepticzone

1468
01:02:15,670 --> 01:02:13,440
visit our facebook page or leave a

1469
01:02:17,829 --> 01:02:15,680
review on itunes

1470
01:02:21,029 --> 01:02:17,839
you can also support the skeptic zone

1471
01:02:24,150 --> 01:02:21,039
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1472
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:24,160
podcast is an independent production

1473
01:02:28,309 --> 01:02:26,000
the views and opinions expressed on the

1474
01:02:30,789 --> 01:02:28,319
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1475
01:02:32,450 --> 01:02:30,799
of australian skeptics or any other

1476
01:02:47,589 --> 01:02:32,460
skeptical organization

1477
01:02:51,270 --> 01:02:49,270
hello people who keep listening after

1478
01:02:54,150 --> 01:02:51,280
the music where ah there it is there's

1479
01:02:56,309 --> 01:02:54,160
my dice rolling machine

1480
01:02:57,349 --> 01:02:56,319
it's not a machine really it's a

1481
01:03:03,349 --> 01:02:57,359
it's a

1482
01:03:04,710 --> 01:03:03,359
collapsible box anyway

1483
01:03:06,150 --> 01:03:04,720
it's the dice game if you don't know

1484
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:06,160
what the dice game is every now and then

1485
01:03:10,870 --> 01:03:08,160
i roll a 10-sided die or a six-sided die

1486
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:10,880
or a 30 or whatever today it's a 10

1487
01:03:15,510 --> 01:03:12,960
and you use your psychic magic guessing

1488
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:15,520
dumb luck powers whatever you wish

1489
01:03:19,589 --> 01:03:17,200
you can time travel

1490
01:03:20,630 --> 01:03:19,599
time travel and then listen to the show

1491
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:20,640
then come

1492
01:03:24,069 --> 01:03:22,000
anyway

1493
01:03:25,270 --> 01:03:24,079
whatever i'm going to roll this three

1494
01:03:27,910 --> 01:03:25,280
times

1495
01:03:30,069 --> 01:03:27,920
in this dice rolling contraption

1496
01:03:31,670 --> 01:03:30,079
and you use your whatever powers to try

1497
01:03:34,789 --> 01:03:31,680
and determine which number comes up here

1498
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:34,799
it comes number one first roll

1499
01:03:39,109 --> 01:03:36,400
shake shake and

1500
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:39,119
through the machine 10

1501
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:42,160
10. there we go first number is 10.

1502
01:03:45,570 --> 01:03:44,640
second number coming up

1503
01:03:47,349 --> 01:03:45,580
here it comes

1504
01:03:48,710 --> 01:03:47,359
[Music]

1505
01:03:52,470 --> 01:03:48,720
four

1506
01:03:53,670 --> 01:03:52,480
as we used to say in the 1970s 10 for a

1507
01:03:58,390 --> 01:03:53,680
good buddy

1508
01:04:03,029 --> 01:04:00,309
three

1509
01:04:04,390 --> 01:04:03,039
today's winning numbers are 10